Should Sweet Lou Piniella be in the Hall of Fame?

A player or manager in Major League Baseball for 41 years, Lou Piniella owns one of the most ironic nicknames, Sweet Lou. In 18 years as an outfielder, he was famously hard-nosed, combative, and short-tempered.

In 23 years as a manager, Piniella was known for his base-throwing, dirt-kicking, and nose-to-nose arguments with the men in blue. Sweet Lou had a short fuse but he was a great teammate and terrific manager.

Given his fame for his battles with baseball’s umpires, it might surprise you to know that Piniella is “only” 12th all-time with 63 times being ejected. That’s a far cry from the man who was number one with the umpire’s thumb, Hall of Famer Bobby Cox, who was ejected 161 times.

This December, Piniella will be one of eight candidates on the Hall of Fame’s “Contemporary Baseball Non-Players” Era Committee. Piniella is joined on the ballot by fellow managers Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, and Cito Gaston, player/executive/broadcaster Bill White, executive Hank Peters, and umpires Joe West and Ed Montague. At baseball’s winter meetings in Nashville, a panel of 16 executives, media members, and existing Hall of Famers will vote on Piniella and the other seven candidates to determine if any would be inducted into the Hall.

In December 2018. Piniella nearly made it to Cooperstown. On the “Today’s Game” ballot (which also included player candidates), Sweet Lou got 11 out of 16 votes, falling one vote shy of the Hall of Fame. Longtime relief ace Lee Smith was unanimously elected, with designated hitter Harold Baines a surprising and controversial selection. Baines hit the required 75% vote total on the nose, getting 12 out of 16 votes to get his plaque in Cooperstown.

The Hall of Fame’s board decided last year to keep the non-player candidates separate from player candidates for the contemporary era (defined as 1980 and beyond). The next time the Non-Player Committee will meet will be three years from now, in December 2026. Given the fact that Dusty Baker and Terry Francona will be on that ballot (along, possibly, with Bruce Bochy if he retires before then), this is probably Piniella’s best shot at Cooperstown.

This piece is a timeline of the playing and managerial career of Louis Victor Piniella and will discuss whether there should be a plaque with Sweet Lou’s likeness in the museum in Cooperstown, New York.

To put you in the mood, please enjoy this 90-second video clip from ESPN chronicling the “sweetness” of Lou Piniella as a Major League Baseball manager.

Cooperstown Cred: Lou Piniella

• 18-year career as a player: .291 BA, 102 HR, 766 RBI, won 2 World Series with the New York Yankees
• As manager: New York Yankees (1986-88), Cincinnati Reds (1990-92), Seattle Mariners (1993-2002), Tampa Bay Devil Rays (2003-05), Chicago Cubs (2007-10)
• Career as manager: 1,835-1,713 (.517)
• 1,835 wins is the 17th most in baseball history (behind 12 Hall of Famers, Dusty Baker, Bruce Bochy, Terry Francona, and Gene Mauch
• Won 1990 World Series with Cincinnati Reds
• Led 2001 Seattle Mariners to 116 wins (tied for most in MLB history)
• 3-time Manager of the Year (1995 AL, 2001 AL, 2008 NL)

(cover photo: Associated Press)

Lou Piniella the Player

Lou Piniella got his start as an MLB manager in New York City, taking the helm of the Yankees in the same year (1986) that Davey Johnson skippered the Big Apple’s other baseball team (the Mets) to the World Series title. Piniella was well known to Yankees fans, having been a member of the team that won four pennants and two World Championships from 1976-1981.

As a player, Piniella was the 1969 AL Rookie of the Year with the expansion Kansas City Royals. Piniella had actually made his MLB debut five years earlier (in 1964 with the Baltimore Orioles) but only appeared in 4 games. Piniella had another cup of coffee for 6 games with the 1968 Cleveland Indians. In the off-season, he was selected by the Seattle Pilots in the expansion draft and was traded to the AL’s other first-year franchise (the Royals) just before Opening Day.

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After 5 years in Kansas City, Piniella was dealt to the New York Yankees in exchange for relief pitcher Lindy McDaniel. The Yankees, after three consecutive seasons in which they hovered around the .500 mark, were an 89-win team in 1974, finishing just two games behind the Baltimore Orioles. Two years later, the Yankees were in the World Series against the Cincinnati Reds, the first of three consecutive Fall Classic appearances.

Along with Graig Nettles and Thurman Munson, Piniella was one of the Yanks’ clubhouse leaders, a future manager in the making. As a player, Piniella was above average, best suited as the right-handed side of an outfield platoon, but with a reputation of being a clutch player. Piniella sported a career batting average of .303 with runners in scoring position, compared to .285 in other situations.

Although he was generally considered a mediocre defensive player, three of his most memorable contributions to the Yankees’ two championships were with the glove. First, he made a sliding catch off the bat of Cookie Rojas in the decisive Game 5 of the 1977 ALCS. Then, in Game 4 of the ’77 World Series, Piniella robbed Ron Cey of what would have been a game-tying home run in the bottom of the 4th inning.

The next, year, in the famous 1978 tie-breaker game at Fenway Park, Sweet Lou, battling the brutally blinding sun in right field, made the catch to end a threat that would have given the Red Sox a 4-0 lead in the inning that preceded the famous Bucky Dent home run. The Yankees won that game and the ALCS and World Series contests that followed. In Game 4 of the Fall Classic, Piniella delivered the game-winning walk-off RBI single to break a 3-3 tie in the bottom of the 10th inning.

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Lou Piniella’s Managerial Career Begins: New York Yankees (1986, ’87, ’89)

In 1986, his playing career having ended in 1984, Lou Piniella took the reins of the clubhouse, replacing Yankee legend Billy Martin, who had been fired for the fourth time out of his five separate tenures with the Bronx Bombers. Piniella took over a team that had finished 97-64 the previous season. Piniella’s teams won 90 and then 89 games in ’86 and ’87, not bad but not good enough for team owner George Steinbrenner.

Piniella was fired during the ’87 post-season and replaced by Martin. Piniella briefly held the General Manager’s title but replaced Martin in the manager’s chair halfway through the ’88 season. Steinbrenner fired Martin for the 5th and final time due to his role in a brawl in a topless bar in Texas.

Are you confused yet? Piniella replaced Martin after the ’85 regular season, Martin replaced Piniella after the end of the ’87 season and then Piniella replaced Martin halfway through the ’88 regular season. The ’88 team finished in 5th place in the AL East and Piniella was let go once again.

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Cincinnati Reds (1990-1992)

In the sport of Major League Baseball, being fired (twice) by George Steinbrenner was hardly a badge of dishonor. Lou Piniella got another chance in 1990, taking over the Cincinnati Reds. The Reds had been through a dysfunctional season in 1989; this was the year that Pete Rose was banned from baseball and was thus forced to relinquish the managerial helm to his friend and bench coach, Tommy Helms.

Although they had finished 75-87 in ’89, Piniella felt he had inherited a good team and he was correct. The Reds had a core of solid position players (future Hall of Famer Barry Larkin, Chris Sabo, Eric Davis, and Paul O’Neill), a trio of top-tier starting pitchers (Jose Rijo, Jack Armstrong and Tom Browning), and the famous “Nasty Boys” troika of relievers (Randy Myers, Rob Dibble and Norm Charlton).

The Reds won their first nine games in 1990, building a four-game lead in the NL West, a lead they would never relinquish as they coasted to 91 wins and the division title. The Reds were underdogs in the NLCS to Jim Leyland’s Pittsburgh Pirates (who were led by Barry Bonds and Cy Young Award winner Doug Drabek) but prevailed in 6 games.

The Reds were even bigger long-shots in the World Series as they were taking on the defending champion Oakland Athletics, who had cruised to 103 regular season wins. But the Reds swept the A’s in four games, most notably with a walk-off 10th-inning single by catcher Joe Oliver in Game 2 (against future Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley).

The 1990 championship is the cornerstone of Lou Piniella’s potential Hall of Fame resume and the key credential that kept him employed as an MLB manager for 19 of the next 20 seasons. His tenure with the Reds ended after the 1992 season at his own choosing and he quickly got another gig, this one with the Seattle Mariners.

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Seattle Mariners (1993-2002)

With the Seattle Mariners, Lou Piniella inherited a team that had lost 98 games in 1992 but had a cadre of talented young players, notably center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. (the son of Ken Griffey, who played both with and for Piniella in New York). The M’s also featured left-handed starting pitcher Randy Johnson, who finally (at the age of 29) harnessed his immense potential with a campaign that placed him 2nd in the AL Cy Young voting to Jack McDowell. The two future Hall of Famers were the centerpieces of the M’s of the mid to late ’90s.

The Mariners improved from 64 wins in 1992 to 82 wins in 1993 before falling to a disappointing 49-63 record in the strike-shortened 1994 campaign, with everyone not named Griffey or Johnson under-performing.

The Magic of 1995

The 1995 Seattle Mariners finally met their potential, despite Griffey missing 73 games due to a broken wrist. Piniella turned his oft-injured 3rd baseman (Edgar Martinez) into a full-time designated hitter; Edgar flourished when limited to batting only. In addition, Johnson won his first of 5 Cy Young Awards.

The M’s were 11.5 games behind the Anaheim Angels on August 23rd, owning a 54-55 record. Griffey, however, had returned to action a week earlier and he sparked a rally for the ages with a a walk-off home run against John Wetteland and the New York Yankees on August 24th. Including that victory, Seattle went 24-11 in their final 35 games of the season, erasing the massive deficit in the standings in the AL West. The M’s and Angels finished the regular season with identical 78-66 records.

The teams faced off in a tie-breaker in the Kingdome, with Johnson matching up with a former Mariners ace, Mark Langston. The M’s pummeled Langston while Johnson pitched a complete game with 12 strikeouts. The M’s won 8-1 and advanced to the AL Division Series against the first-ever AL Wild Card team, the New York Yankees.

This was the first time in baseball history that a Wild Card team was able to participate in the postseason party and the first and only time since 1981 that a third tier of playoffs had been used. The 5-game series between Piniella’s Mariners and Buck Showalter‘s Yankees did not disappoint.

The M’s ultimately prevailed in 5 games thanks to Martinez’s famous walk-off double that scored Griffey from first base in the bottom of the 11th inning. This is one of my favorite video clips in baseball history. You can watch the Brent Musberger version (on ABC) or the radio version called by Mariners’ long-time play-by-play man Dave Niehaus. Either way, Griffey’s textbook dash from first to home is an instant goosebump provider. I still don’t believe it!

Not to be forgotten from that epic Game 5 was that Piniella brought his Big Unit (Johnson) out of the bullpen to get out of a jam in the 9th inning. Johnson was the winning pitcher in relief.

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Anyway, sometimes a team rides a magic carpet and can’t sustain the good karma all the way to the finish line. It was such with the ’95 Mariners, who lost the ALCS in 6 games to the Cleveland Indians. Still, even in defeat, the 1995 M’s had saved baseball for the city of Seattle.

Still Championship-less in Seattle (1996-2000)

Lou Piniella’s Seattle Mariners missed the playoffs in 1996, with major back surgery limiting Johnson to just 8 starts. Despite superior offensive performances by Griffey, Martinez, Jay Buhner, and 20-year-old rookie shortstop Alex Rodriguez, the M’s couldn’t overcome the loss of their Big Unit. The staff ERA was a woeful 5.21 for the season.

Johnson returned for a 20-win season in 1997 and the M’s returned to the playoffs. However, the Baltimore Orioles’ Mike Mussina outpointed the M’s 6’10” left-hander in both Games 1 and 4 of the ALDS; the O’s prevailed 3 games to 1.

In 1998, Seattle had a miserable season, winning just 76 games. The 34-year-old Johnson was in his free agent walk year and management was worried about his durability. In the throes of a mediocre campaign, the Big Unit was traded to Houston. Johnson led the Astros to the post-season and then, as a free agent, signed with the Arizona Diamondbacks and proceeded to win 4 straight Cy Young Awards.

The 1999 M’s were still lacking in pitching depth, going 79-83 while the staff posted a 5.24 ERA.

The fortunes for Piniella’s Mariners started to turn back around in 2000, despite a February trade of Ken Griffey Jr. Multiple new players (John Olerud, Mark McLemore, Mike Cameron, Aaron Sele, Kazuhiro Sasaki, and future Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson) joined the M’s and the team jelled well enough to win 91 games, good enough to make it back to the playoffs. Ultimately, the M’s would fall in 6 games in the ALCS to the Yankees.

One of the Greatest (Regular Season) Teams of All Time: the 2001 Mariners

In 2001, at least during the regular season, everything came together for the M’s, in a historic way. The Mariners won 116 games, tying the 1908 Cubs for most regular season wins ever.

How did it happen? Well, for starters, the team signed a 27-year-old rookie right fielder from Japan (Ichiro Suzuki) who became an instant sensation. Ichiro hit .350 while stealing 56 bases, scoring 127 runs, and leading the majors with 242 hits, all while providing Gold Glove quality defense.

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Second baseman Bret Boone, originally drafted by the Mariners but traded after the 1993 season, was re-signed as a free agent in December 2000. Boone was Rogers Hornsby reincarnated in 2001, setting career highs with 37 HR, 141 RBI, 118 runs, and 206 hits; his slash line was sublime (.331 BA/.372 OBP/.578 SLG).

Meanwhile, while 38-year-old DH Edgar Martinez had the final great season of his career, Seattle’s pitching staff led all of MLB with a 3.54 ERA. Another 38-year-old, Jamie Moyer, won 20 games.

Thanks to Moyer’s two wins, the M’s squeaked past the Cleveland Indians in the ALDS but fell to the 3-time defending AL champion New York Yankees in 5 games in the ALCS.

After that disappointing October, Seattle won 93 games in 2002 but that was only good enough for 3rd place in the A.L. West. It was Lou Piniella’s final season skippering the Seattle Mariners. Piniella was inducted into the Mariners Hall of Fame in 2014.

Tampa Bay Devil Rays (2003-2005)

Lou Piniella would be the Mariners’ skipper for a full decade before choosing to go to his hometown of Tampa, FL to take over the fledgling Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Piniella was not fired by the M’s. During his ten years, he led them to the playoffs four times, the only four post-season appearances in the franchise’s history (which is still true to this day).

The Devil Rays in fact had to give up two players to “trade” for manager Piniella. For Sweet Lou, this was just about wanting to be home; for Tampa Bay, this was about turning over a brutally bad team to a man with a reputation for winning.

Let’s be kind to say that the Devil Rays in 2003 were not blessed with Hall of Fame caliber talent. In Seattle, Piniella managed current or future Cooperstown inductees like Griffey, Edgar, Johnson, and Ichiro. Piniella’s best players on the ’03 Devil Rays were Aubrey Huff, Travis Lee and Julio Lugo.

There was nothing to do with this team: winning 63, 70 and 67 games per season was an improvement over the 55-win squad from 2002. After three losing campaigns, Piniella questioned the team ownership’s commitment to winning and left to take over another losing team, the Chicago Cubs.

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Chicago Cubs (2007-2010)

The Cubs had gone 66-96 in the last of four seasons under Dusty Baker so this was another turnaround project for Lou Piniella. As he had done with the Reds and Mariners in the past, Piniella did turn the team around, leading them to an 85-win season and the NL Central title. A year later, on a team of mostly above-average but not superstar talent, he skippered the Cubbies to a 97-win season.

Unfortunately, both teams were swept in the National League Division Series match-ups (by the Diamondbacks in ’07 and the Dodgers in ’08). Many of the members of the 97-win Cubs of 2008 were still with the team in 2010, but much of the “above average” bunch had regressed to “below average.” Of the eight players with the most plate appearances, seven were in their 30’s, and the eighth was a 20-year-old rookie (Starlin Castro).

With a 51-74 record in the midst of his fourth season in Chicago, Piniella decided to step down as the team’s manager, choosing to go home to Tampa to spend time with his ailing mother.

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How Lou Piniella ranks among MLB Managers

In his 23 years as an MLB manager, Lou Piniella won 1,835 games. That’s more than all but 16 other skippers in the history of the sport. All but three of those 16 others (Bruce Bochy, Gene Mauch, Terry Francona, and Dusty Baker) are enshrined in Cooperstown.

Among his contemporaries or near-contemporaries, he won more big-league games than Hall of Fame skippers Tommy Lasorda, Dick Williams, Earl Weaver and Whitey Herzog.

Piniella successfully turned three losing teams into winners.

If being a Hall of Famer is partly about being famous, Lou’s got it. During his decades in the dugout, he was one of the game’s most colorful characters. His temper and arguments with umpires are the stuff of a legend.

Piniella was on the “Today’s Game Eras Committee ballot in 2017 and received 7 out of 16 possible votes. That was the most that anyone received other than the two men who were elected, longtime GM John Schuerholz (who received 16 out of 16 votes) and former Commissioner Bud Selig (15 votes). A true managing contemporary of Piniella, Davey Johnson, was also on the ballot and received anywhere between 0 and 4 votes (the Hall generously reveals “less than 5” rather than showing any zeros).

Piniella and Johnson were both on the “Today’s Game” ballot of 2019, along with Charlie Manuel and seven players. As we’ve seen, Piniella fell just one vote shy of the Hall of Fame, with Johnson and Manuel each getting too few votes (if any) for the Hall to report.

Other potential managerial candidates for the Hall were overlooked for the 2019 ballot, Baker and Jim Leyland. All four men have managed and turned around multiple teams, with Leyland having the advantage of having won 3 pennants (compared to 1 for Johnson, Piniella, and Baker). Leyland and Johnson are on this year’s ballot (with Cito Gaston).

Comparing Lou Piniella to his Non-Enshrined Peers

If you take a look at the career records of these four men, plus Bochy, Mike Scioscia, Terry Francona, Bob Melvin, Joe Maddon, and Buck Showalter, you can see that there will be plenty of competition vying for the coveted Cooperstown plaques.

This list shows the most wins for MLB managers who debuted in 1984 or later (’84 is the year Davey Johnson took over the reins of the New York Mets).

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Bochy (with the Texas Rangers) and Melvin (now with the San Francisco Giants) are still managing, with Bochy having put the cherry on his Hall of Fame sundae with his fourth World Series title.

It’s interesting that 12 of the top 24 managers on the all-time wins list managed exclusively in the expansion era (1969 and beyond), with another four who started in the 1950s or ’60s but managed into the 70s or 80s.

A key factor in that statistic is that there have been between 24 and 30 MLB franchises from 1969 to now whereas, for the first 60 years in the 20th century, only 16 jobs were available (not to mention that the regular season was shorter).

Comparing Lou Piniella and Davey Johnson

Let’s take a look at Piniella and Johnson, who have both been at least two of the Veterans Committee ballots. The two have very similar careers in terms of their Cooperstown credentials. Consider the parallels:

• Both had productive but unspectacular MLB careers as players.
• Member of two World Series winning teams (Piniella with the ’77-’78 Yankees, Johnson with the ’66 and ’70 Orioles).
• Got their first managing gig in the majors at a young age and in New York. Johnson was 41 when he took over the Mets in ’84; Piniella was 42 when he first managed the Yankees in ’86.
• Won their first (and only) World Series titles early in their managerial careers (Johnson in his third year with the Mets, Piniella in his first year in Cincinnati, which was his fourth year as a big league skipper).
• Led teams to the playoffs on multiple occasions since but never returned to the World Series after their one and only championship.
• Managed five different teams.
• Were turnaround specialists, leading multiple teams out of the abyss and into the post-season. Take a look at this chart, which shows their teams’ records during their maiden voyage with each and the record of their predecessors (remembering that Johnson’s numbers look odd due to the strike-shortened 1994 and 1995 seasons).

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There are differences of course. Piniella’s career was longer (23 years to Johnson’s 17) and thus he accumulated more total wins. Johnson’s winning percentage (.562) was better than Piniella’s (.517) but Davey never took over a truly awful team like the Devil Rays of the early 2000’s.

Another difference is that, with the exception of his two firings in New York in the Yankees’ managerial carousel, Piniella went from job to job on his own terms. Johnson was fired by the Mets, Reds, and Dodgers, resigning from his other gigs with the Orioles and Nationals (although his departure from Baltimore might well have been forced upon him if he had not pre-emptively resigned).

Comparing Lou Piniella to Jim Leyland

Lou Piniella and Jim Leyland both began their managerial careers in the same year (1986), Piniella with the Yankees, Leyland with the Pittsburgh Pirates. Unlike Piniella, Johnson, and Cito Gaston (who is also on the 2024 ballot), Leyland never played in the major leagues.

Both Piniella and Leyland have one World Championship on their Cooperstown resumes (Piniella with the Reds, Leyland with the Florida Marlins in 1997). As we’ve seen, Leyland’s career won-lost record is inferior to Sweet Lou’s, a result of sticking around with the post-Bonds Pirates and the fire sale in Florida after their World Series title.

Both Piniella and Leyland are three-time winners of the Manager of the Year award.

Leyland has the added bonus of having skippered a victorious Team USA squad in the 2017 World Baseball Classic.

Did Lou Piniella Underachieve?

Although Lou Piniella spent a full 23 seasons in a major league dugout, he managed just one World Series team (the 1990 Reds). Today, with 30 MLB teams, a manager should randomly make the World Series 1 out of every 15 seasons. He made it once in 23 campaigns.

Now, nobody can fault him for missing the Series in his years in Tampa Bay. And, with the Cubs, he made the playoffs twice but was swept in 3 games both times in the NLDS. Those teams were not filled with game-changing stars so it’s fair to argue that just making the playoffs twice was a nice accomplishment. Still, one berth in the Fall Classic in 23 managerial seasons is below what a random sampling would produce.

In particular, Piniella’s record in Seattle deserves scrutiny. In the late 1990’s, his teams employed Hall of Famers Ken Griffey Jr., and Randy Johnson along with Alex Rodriguez in his prime and hitting machine Edgar Martinez. In 2001, the M’s featured Ichiro Suzuki in his rookie/MVP season.

In the star-crossed history of baseball in Seattle, Piniella’s team’s four trips to the playoffs were the only four in the franchise’s history until 2022 but not getting even one pennant from the quality teams he skippered seems like a significant under-achievement.

Breaking Down the Postseason Failures

Piniella had a Hall of Fame starter (Johnson) who led the Mariners to the playoffs in 1995 and ’97. Piniella rode Johnson hard to get the M’s to the 1995 postseason party and get them through the classic ALDS against the New York Yankees.

Can you blame Sweet Lou that the M’s (who went 79-66 in the strike-shortened regular season) fell to the 100-win Cleveland Indians?

In 1997, Piniella’s 90-win Mariners lost in the ALDS to Davey Johnson’s 98-win Baltimore Orioles. In the O’s 4-game series win, Baltimore’s Mike Mussina matched up against the Big Unit in Games 1 and 4. Mussina gave up 3 runs in 14 innings; Johnson gave up 8 runs in 13 innings. The Orioles won both games. Can we blame Lou (and credit Davey) for Mussina out-pitching Johnson in both games?

In 2000, the Mariners were the Wild Card team. They swept the Chicago White Sox in the ALDS before falling to Torre’s Yankees in the ALCS. Yankee pitchers had a 3.06 ERA in the ALCS; Mariners pitchers posted a 5.37 ERA. Was that better managing by Torre or did he simply have better pitchers?

The 2001 ALCS

The failure of the 2001 team (which won a record 116 games) to make the World Series was the big bummer.

Ichiro, the dynamic 27-year-old rookie from Japan, logged 242 hits while hitting .350 and playing Gold Glove defense. Designated Hitter Martinez was still in his prime (116 RBI, 160 OPS+). Second baseman Bret Boone (a free agent signing) had a career year, hitting .331 while swatting 37 home runs with 141 RBI.

The M’s survived a five-game series against Cleveland but lost (again) to the Yankees and Torre in five games in the ALCS.

In Games 1 and 2, Andy Pettitte and Mussina out-pitched Aaron Sele and Freddy Garcia. Behind 20-game winner Jamie Moyer, Game 3 was a blowout in favor of Seattle.

In Game 4, Seattle’s Paul Abbott matched zeroes with Roger Clemens for five innings. The game was tied at 1 after 8 innings. The difference in the 9th? Mariano Rivera tossed a scoreless frame while Kazuhiro Sasaki gave up a walk-off two-run home run to Alfonso Soriano.

In Game 5, Sele, John Halama, and Joel Piniero gave up 9 runs in the first 6 innings; Pettitte gave up none. The Yankees won easily (12-3) and took the Series in 5 games.

What’s the point here?

Yankees pitchers: Pettitte, Mussina, Clemens, Rivera

Mariners pitchers: Sele, Garcia, Sasaki, Halama and Piniero

The 2001 Mariners led the majors with 927 runs scored in the regular season. In the ALCS against the Yankees’ best, they hit .211 with a .635 OPS. Can the failure to hit against the Yankees’ Hall of Fame caliber top 3 starters (and Rivera) be blamed on Lou Piniella?

In his career, Piniella’s teams made the playoffs 7 times in 23 seasons. He had 5 series wins, and 6 series losses. In total, 4 of those 6 series losses came at the hands of Joe Torre (1997 ALDS, 2000 ALCS, 2001 ALCS, and the 2008 NLDS, when Piniella was with the Cubs and Torre was with the Los Angeles Dodgers).

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So, Should Lou Piniella be in the Hall of Fame?

I have been and remain on the fence about the Hall of Fame for Lou Piniella. I would like to have seen more post-season success but that’s not always fair to a manager. Bobby Cox only won the World Series one time despite having three Hall of Fame starting pitchers for most of his tenure with the Atlanta Braves.

There are not a lot of managers who spend 23 years in the dugout without ever wondering if somebody wanted to hire them. Piniella was always in demand. As we’ve seen, he won more games than recent managerial inductees Lasorda, Williams, Weaver, and Herzog.

For whatever it’s worth, Piniella was the only manager in the first 45 of the Seattle Mariners to lead the team to the playoffs.

The Bill James System

Sabermetric pioneer Bill James has a system (devised and published on his website in February 2013) that ranks every manager in baseball history on a points system. The points are based on total wins, wins above .500, postseason success, and teams that overachieved in the regular seasons.

In the James system, Piniella earned 102 points in his career. That’s more than Williams and Herzog and 4 other Hall of Fame enshrined skippers.

I had more detail on the points system in this piece about Davey Johnson (published last December) but I’ll summarize it here: it’s both good and bad for Sweet Lou. Johnson gets 111 points in the system. Dusty Baker gets 160 points.

Other Bill James points totals for managers: Terry Francona (124), Mike Scioscia (111), Bruce Bochy (106), Jim Leyland (102), Billy Martin (100).

I’m not a slave to the James system, by the way, and I’m sure he isn’t either. For Lou Piniella and the Hall of Fame, I could go either way. If he makes it, he will not lower the standards of Hall of Fame managers. If he doesn’t, there is no grave injustice. Piniella is truly a borderline candidate.

Will Lou Piniella Make the Hall of Fame?

This is a different question of course. In the two most recent ballots for those whose primary impact on the game was from 1988 and beyond, Lou Piniella had the highest vote total of anybody who didn’t make it into the Hall of Fame. 7 votes out of 16 (with 12 needed for induction) put him far away from Cooperstown on the 2017 ballot but his 11 votes in 2019 put him literally one vote shy of a Hall of Fame plaque.

Given his strong showing in both ’17 and ’19, he has to be considered the favorite on the 2024 ballot (with the vote happening next month in Nashville). He’s bested Johnson on recent ballots, with Leyland being a strong newcomer, and Bill White has an interesting case as well.

These votes come down to a numbers game. The 16 panelists on the Eras Committees are presented with 8-man ballots and can only vote for 3 men. With 12 out of 16 votes required (75%), the math is very difficult for three candidates to be inducted and nearly impossible for four to make it.

My prediction is that the reasons that Piniella did well on two previous ballots will resonate with the panelists this year and that he will be on stage in Cooperstown next summer as a newly minted Hall of Famer.

Thanks for reading.

Chris Bodig

Please follow Cooperstown Cred on Twitter @cooperstowncred.

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